The fight: PvP-RP or
PvE-RP servers, do we need both?
In the orange corner; representing PvP-RP servers, weighing in at 322
posts,
and a member since March 2008:
style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">COENHEART
style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">
And in the yellow corner; a member since January 2008,
weighing in
at 372 posts, a celebrity of "
href="http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/22142" target="_blank">Rolling
With Roleplayers," and representin' for the PvE-RP homies:
style="font-weight: bold;">
style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">KHALATHWYR
Crowd Favorite:
style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">Coenheart
appears to be the crowd favorite in this one, though only by a
href="http://forums.tentonhammer.com/showthread.php?t=25744">single
vote.
Machail:
Looks like we've got our two victims, er fighters all
ready for the first forum fight. How do you guys think it's looking?
Martuk
style="color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">: Khal and
Coen are new to the forum fight arena, but both are capable posters so
this should be a good battle.
JoBildo
style="color: rgb(51, 255, 51);">: Well,
they're both ridiculously ugly... so I'm hoping to not spend too much
time looking at them. You guys just tell me how it goes.
style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">Khalathwyr
style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">: Why play
such a violent game? Violence in lore
should not preclude whole portions of the gaming populace simply
because they choose, while playing this game, to not take part in one
game play feature 100% of the time. That makes about as much sense as
forcing everyone to have to craft every 3 minutes just because the
feature is in the game.
Coenheart:
style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">
So you think that because you are playing this game on a PvP server you
are going to be forced into PvP 100% of the time, or every 3 minutes
for that matter? The amount of time you believe you are
going to be forced into combat with another player is a wee bit off, or
in other words, not even close.
Khalathwyr:
style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">I
too have played on a PvP server a few times and each time I rolled a
new character on those different servers in different games I
was jumped when either I first got into the game or first got within
eyesight of town. You miss the point. The point, is it's a game. Games
are meant to be played for fun. Not just the PvPer's fun. For
everyone's fun.
Coenheart
style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">:
So you have a few bad experiences and you refuse to ever try something
again. That doesn’t sound very productive, but whatever
tickles your
pickle man.
Khalathwyr
style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">:
That "So you had a few bad experiences.." line is too
clichéd.
Coenheart
style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">:
Breathing air is a cliché as well, but it works.
JoBildo:
You what else is cliché? Remind everyone what's a
cliché. I give this round to Khal just for
pointing that out... but I like Coen's heart... in that he has none.
Martuk:
Khal opened with a solid argument. Coen with
a fair rebuttal, but a little light on the logic. When did breathing
become a cliché again?
Machail:
Gotta agree with you guys. Buzz the buzzer on Coen there. This round to
Khal.
wrong in that there is reason to want a PvE-RP server. Just as hardcore
PvPers want a PvP server roleplayers want both a PvP and PvE server
(one of which is in already). Some people want to just
log in and play their game and not have to deal with people they deem
"weirdos" who "take this game too seriously" and need to "get a life".
Coenheart style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">:
If role-players make someone uncomfortable then they
shouldn’t be
playing a, ready for this one, Massive Multiplayer
Online…here it
comes… href="http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/30821">
alt=""
src="/image/view/78292"> style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">Role
Playing…Game, MMORPG. You
don’t even need server tags, there
it is in the game category. Imagine that!
Khalathwyr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">: Take a look at all the
servers of all the MMORPGs out there.
Pay special attention to the Chuck Norris conversations and the "I
pwnzor yur NoObN355!!!1!" and show me just one place where Chuck is
mentioned or that phrase is written in the lore/background of Star
Wars, in the Realms of Camelot, in the original lands of Azeroth or in
any of Robert E. Howard's works. Please show me, I'm a patient man.
I'll wait.
See, fact is,
Roleplaying, unfortunately, can't be expected anymore in
these types of games.
Coenheart style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">: I
heard Chuck Norris can simply insert himself into Lore, guess that
news hasn’t gotten around yet. And does anyone even talk like
that
anymore?
Khalathwyr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">:
Does anyone talk like that? style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);"
href="http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173364"
target="_blank">http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173364 style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">.
Yep.
Martuk:
OH my god they summoned Chuck Norris!
JoBildo:
This one's all Khal again. Just for reminding me why it's
good to have RP servers... as refuge from Chuck Norris.
Machail:
And negative points to Coen for actually making a Chuck Norris joke.
This is a professional ring. There's no room for that kind of malarky
here.
So, stay with me here, just like on a normal PvE server, on an RP
server people are going to run up and disrupt your role-playing,
because you can‘t be expected to
role-play all the
time on a RP server, because they can. And what are you going to do?
Report them I assume, or put them on ignore. I think their conduct is
reportable on all servers, and that would fall under harassment. Oh,
that’s right, on a regular PvE server you’d be
interrupted “every 3
minutes”.
Khalathwyr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">:
Me personally, I won't report them. Add them to my ignore list for
sure. Either way I'd personally much rather only have to deal with that
than wasting minutes of my time engaged in combat with them. Or having
to run back to the location I was at after being killed by someone who
thought it would be funny to off me while I'm fighting a quest boss.
That to me is not fun. Games are played for fun. Simple
concept.
Coenheart style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">:
Of course, fun; community and challenge and banding together to
overcome something, definitely not. I mean if you're not having fun
then
who cares about those other people who are counting on you.
It’s all about you.
Khalathwyr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">:
I'm already familiar with the stance and rally cry of the proponents of
the opposing side to this topic, thank you.
Coenheart style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">:
Oh that’s not the rallying cry, this is. “We
aren’t all jerks, and we won’t ruin your game
play.”
Martuk:
Perhaps its from all my years of head trauma, but did Coen actually
just make Khal's point?
JoBildo:
I think... yeah, I think he did.
style="font-weight: bold;">Martuk style="font-style: italic; color: rgb(51, 102, 255);">(shuffling
blindly through papers): How the heck do we score that
one?!
Machail:
Does that mean we deduct points from Khal since Coen is
apprarently fighting for him now? But then he just made a point for the
other guy, so do we deduct from Khal or Coen? Or does Coen lose points
and Khal gain them?
JoBildo:
Um... I say give Coen a point on Khal's side.
Martuk:
Good call; Coen lands a devastating blow on himself, thus riveting the
argument in Khal's favor.
JoBildo:
Can we move on? My head hurts.
As for
a RP-PvE taking away from RP opportunities, the majority of RP
you will see on a RP PvP server is combat. If you can call it RP. I
doubt there will be much verbal interaction between
adversaries.
Coenheart style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">:
Of course, how foolish of me, there won't be any verbal interaction.
Someone killing you is
defiantly not a reason to hate them….yeah.
Khalathwyr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">:
I never said someone killing you wasn't reason a reason to hate them. I
did, however, insinuate that will be the majority of interaction on PvP
enabled servers. We have reports
now of how level 80s are in beta now and are camping the corpses and
spawn points of level 20s.
Coenheart style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">: I
can’t confirm that report because I haven’t
actually seen that
happen.
Khalathwyr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">: style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);"
href="http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/170812"
target="_blank">http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/170812 style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">.
It's question number 4. Having a definitive statement
like this here proves that those who want to grief and make trouble are
on this game just as the rest of us are. If they get a chance to attack
you, they will.
Coenheart style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">: I
did read that article and here is the quote you are referring to:
style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">
“You
could kill anyone pretty much anywhere. Naturally, it
wasn’t long
before level 80s were camping level 20s at resurrection points and we
had to start making rules and policies and putting our systems in
place.”
Tricky, tricky!
That’s the great thing about Beta, they can
see where
they need to make changes and make them.
JoBildo:
Hmm... you know, I think it's a tough spot to defend, but I like Coen's
spirit. Give this round to him for sound logic.
Martuk:
I will give Coen points for confusing me and score this in favor of
Khal for sound logic and links.
JoBildo:
Well, Mac... up to you, who wins this round? Khal or Coen?
Machail:
I'm gonna go with Coen. He followed Khal outside the ring and pulled
him back in with a solid argument about beta's purpose.
Martuk:
The Beta smackdown takes the round.
So you see no reason at all for a RP-PvP server and demand a RP-PvE
server? That’s what I’m getting out of all this.
You don’t think any
role-playing will take place, just ruthless killing.
Khalathwyr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">:
Ok Lucy, let me Esplain. As I said before, most people will take the
easiest route. If that involves jumping you and portraying a "deaf/mute
mass murderer", then that's what many people will do.
Coenheart style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">:
Shouldn’t role-playing be based on the setting? I’m
not sure that there
were many deaf/mute mass murderers “back in the
day”. Look at the
possibilities, toll bridges, how awesome is that. If you
can’t handle ignoring someone who is
a jerk, how do you handle
certain situations in life? Sure it’s just a game, but a lot
can be
learned from this type of game. Interacting with different kinds of
people is one of them. You are teaching people nothing other than
segregation is ok.
Khalathwyr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">:
I agree, role-play has and should draw from the setting of the game. I
agree, there probably weren't many deaf/mute mass murderers back in the
day, but back in the day when Ultima Online launched, that was
the most role-played
character I've ever seen. It still is the most popular form of
"evil-doer" in games that have PvP enabled RP servers today.
style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">
As for the
segregation remark, try harder. Ok, in that line of
thinking, why not offer only a PvP server then? No PvE, no RP PvP and
no RP PvE.
Coenheart style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">: So a mob that
gets the jump on you and kills you while you are running away from
another mob is wasting your time as well. Perhaps an invincibility
button should be
implemented for people who don’t want to waste their time
with trifling
things, like death.
Khalathwyr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">: I see your point
about the mob, but I counter that if a player
killed me and then I was able to get my corpse it probably
wouldn't bother me so much. It's the fact that alot of those players
will camp that spot.
Martuk:
Ha HAHA I have to give Khal points for shape shifting Coen into Lucy.
JoBildo:
I always did get a Ricky Ricardo vibe from Khal. Tough one though...
both have sound points. I'm going to award both side a point.
Machail:
I'm going to have to do the same. It was a flurry of valid points
there, each one blocked and a counterpoint made. That was a good round.
that it may be hard to look
past your own nose and understand that other people may not like the
exact same things as you, but let me throw the proverbial cold water on
you: There are many.
alt=""
src="/image/view/78292"> style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">Coenheart style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">:
You’re right! I mean look at the TTH poll, 50 people want a
RP-PvE
server. Now that’s a large server if I ever saw one! I know
the link
for that post has been posted on the Funcom AoC forums, and yet so many
people were adamant about having one, 50 whole people, came
over and said they want a RP-PvE
server.
Khalathwyr style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0);">:
Getting people to vote in an online poll is no guarantee. Instead of
looking at the exact number, you should instead look at it relative to
the other figures percentage wise. The TTH site does not by any means
have the sum total of gamers who will play this game.
Coenheart style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0);">: Over 500 people
have written an entry in
TTH’s
AoC for Life contest. Those people wanted the
prizes bad enough to create an account and write a 100 to 250 word
statement on why they would play for life. If there really is this
gigantic outcry for a RP-PvE server, I would think registering and
clicking a button would be far easier than registering and writing
100-250 words.
Machail:
Coen CREAMED Khal there. I don't think Khal saw that coming.
JoBildo:
I see Khal's point, but the truth is, if there really were that many
folks wanting what Khal wants... where are they and why haven't they
made their voices heard?
Martuk:
Coen makes some good points, but he poked fun at my poll.
Machail:
You should be used to folks making fun of your poll. I know your
girlfriend sure does.
POINTS TALLY:
Round One - style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0); font-weight: bold;">Khalathwyr
Round Two - style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0); font-weight: bold;">Khalathwyr
Round Three - style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0); font-weight: bold;">Coenheart
scores one for style="color: rgb(255, 255, 0); font-weight: bold;">Khalathwyr
Round Four - style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0); font-weight: bold;">Coenheart
Round Five - Draw
Round Six - style="color: rgb(255, 153, 0); font-weight: bold;">Coenheart
style="font-weight: bold;"> style="color: rgb(255, 0, 0);">Winner - Khalathwyr
Machail:
Khalathwyr declared as winner. I think if the fight continued longer we
may have seen a shift, as Coen finished quite strongly.
Martuk:
Indeed. Khal argued his side well. It just looks like the cards fell on
Coens side this day.
Machail:
Reverse that. Then frame it.
Martuk:
Oh, doh!
JoBildo:
That's all from the AoC Ten Ton Hammer Forum Fight Arena. Join us next
time for Forum Fight #2 - Casual vs Hardcore.
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