so this will probably prompt a lot of name calling but w/e. the consequences of an entire month of hulkageddon should probably be looked at a little more closely, not merely towards the status of markets and profits and prizes but what sort of impact it might have on anyone unfortunate enough to be on their trial or fisrt month of eve when this event takes place. a lot might be said about steep learning curves and dealing with the reality of the game, but its still a game and if some newbie gets everything they have destroyed before they ever establish a foothold or the capital to replace their losses, that would dramatically reduce the probability of them enjoying the experience to continue. and think about the timing, its the begining of summer break in the States, schools are letting and that next generation of potential eve players is going to have more free time to try out new games and the last thing we want for the future of eve is to discourage new blood from discovering internet spaceships. and no, none of my pilots are miners or haulers or w/e, and yes i was shooting any pod i could find in jita over the weekend. just every time you gank that 2 week old miner think about how different the game would be if a quarter of the industrialists and miners in the game didnt exist
Sins of a Solar Spymaster #78: The Extortion of Empire - Page 2
During a Hulkageddon, the more informed miners in hisec tend to hide; those that do not hide tend to die. In either case, the supply of minerals is drastically cut, and thousands of Hulks are destroyed. And what exactly makes a Hulk? According to a detailed analysis by Jester, 70% of each Hulk is made out of - wait for it - Technetium, the fabled conflict diamond of the North. Technetium only comes from the northwest regions of the galaxy, and the brutal defenestration of Raidendot from Tenal and Vale finally has brought about something that savvy market-watchers have dreaded since the Technetium bottleneck was first created - a cartel. This OTEC - the Organization of Technetium Exporting Corporations - comprises representatives from the CFC, NCdot, Ev0ke, and PL, the four nullsec entities that control 90% of the Technetium moons in the galaxy. Rather than trying to restrict supply, OTEC has coordinated price-fixing, jacking the price of Tech past 200k per unit - and in doing so driving up the price of every T2 ship and module on the market. The Tech market is very ‘thin’ - there are no major stockpiles of Technetium lying around, as the community has expected a nerf on this bottleneck product for more than a year. The abrupt Hulkageddon-induced need to produce thousands of replacement exhumers will only exacerbate the price spike.
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So: the Sack of Jita was only the tip of the iceberg, the birth-scream of a new economic era that was only hinted at during the Ice Interdiction. Nullsec now sends gankers into hisec to disrupt an already thin mineral supply and bankrolls freelancers via Hulkageddon to destroy miners en masse; each exhumer destroyed can only be replaced by production that requires cartelized Technetium, which goes right into the pockets of the very people bankrolling the gankers. A tremendous amount of uncertainty now hangs over the head of every hisec trade hub and each producer within it, as if Jita can be sacked, perhaps Amarr, Rens, or Dodixie could be next - and that uncertainty drives prices up still more. I can state affirmatively that there will be more ‘burns’ of trade hubs by nullsec alliances, but future attacks will not come with two months of warning - if there is any notice at all.
The Sack of Jita was originally intended as an experiment. However, because of its success, and the nexus of incentives from Escalation, Hulkageddon, and OTEC, macroeconomic extortion of Empire for profit will rapidly transform from a gleam in a nullsec financier’s eye to a brutal fact of economic life in New Eden.
To be honest, it will give the impression that, as it once was, EVE Online is a hard and tough place, where justice and fairness are subjective concepts and if you want to do well, you must adapt. Those with thin skins shall find good homes in other MMO's, while those who want to carve out their own slice of New Eden with a "the ends justify the means" mindset will take to it like fat kids to cake.
Mining barges and exhumers can't be trained on trial accounts. Also, if a persons first and only experience with EVE is mining I'd be shocked if they lasted long in the game since it's not very engaging gameplay.
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Kind of saw some of this coming to be honest, and I like it. This is why this game is great, in no other game could you manipulate the market like this. Great post, can't wait to see more bears tears.
an example effect...
- 200+ alliance ceases to mine anything (mining is almost twice more profitable than it was a year ago but 2x suck still equals double suk, and now with a high risk assessment)
- instead, alliance moves operations to pi, nullsec ratting (still relatively safe in numbers), incursions, etc.
- this means less dedicated miners = higher mineral prices = more you pay for your pvp/gank ships
what goes around comes around.
additionally, for those that purchase plex, you'll notice that although you get approx. 25% more isk (currently), mineral prices have almost doubled, which will then cascade thru the market. wonder how long until it (an isk itself) is effectively worthless.
finally, i find it amusing how gankers and twitchies fashionably jump on the bear-hate bandwagon. eve isn't the only place to graze. imagine how much a steak would cost if you killed all but the last cow. extrapolate, iterate...
I think what you fail to notice is that as ship prices go up, not only do gankers pay more for ships to gank in, but miners also must pay more to replace their Hulks. Suddenly those high mineral and Tech prices seem more trouble than they are worth.
In fact, you could argue the cost to the miner is great as those who are ganking are generally flying in cost effective, t1 hulls with cheap mods fitted. Conversly, the miner is typically in a T2 mining ship (Hulk) with T2 mods and generally +4/+5 attribute and some skill implants as well.
When considering these factors, tell me who ends up paying more? You'll find it's the miner every time, and the higher the mineral prices go the worse off the miner actually becomes when gangs of gankers increase.
I disagree, I think that high mineral prices to the point where flying tech1 ships becomes a reasonable financial hit as well as an issue of time to reship will make this game much more interesting again.
The issue is T1 ships will always be cheaper than their T2 counterparts, for VERY obvious reasons.
You can gank a Hulk for about 50 million in cheap t1 ships and fittings. The Hulk itself, only the hull, costs about 300 million in Jita currently.
You're trying to tell me that gankers are going to be worse off? Hardly.
Of course Miners will suffer more than pirates, that's why they're called pirates. I don't think many people are silly enough to gank in a ship worth more than their target.
This is a prime example of what makes Eve a brilliant game. Like in the real world, we have seen colonization and occupation by force, where strategy and managed resources determine the victor. The next logical step is economic control. Gangs do it, Corporations do it, Governments do it... why not the Eve Elite?
Frankly I'm surprised this hasn't happened sooner! Cartels and Oligopolies will claim entire markets, as our oil and mass-media empires have done. Like it or not we live in a world of price fixing and market manipulation on a massive scale, and have become so immersed in it that we often don't see it.
Be assured, the high mineral and Tech prices will not be more trouble than they're worth... at least not to the entrepeneurs controlling those markets. They're doing it for personal gain, not to improve the economic mechanics of the Eve universe. Personally, I think co-ordinating market domination on that scale is quite a feat!
But, there will always be profit in piracy.
Presumably the miners are far more wealthy than the gankers.
Seemingly they can afford to keep turning up in expensive Tech II ships and mods while the gankers have to try and kill them for drops that are a fraction of the value of the ship.
So really, who are the smart ones here, the miners or the gankers? Just thought I would throw that in the mix, something to muse on while your gloating about how clever you are.
PS I don't mine (too boring for me).
As a CFC pilot, I can just ask for a single suicide Catalyst in alliance chat and instantly receive 10 in my hangar free of charge. Many CFC industrialists have the BPOs and tech necessary to literally shit ganking ships as an afterthought of daily trade. Minerals are cheap in null sec hubs.
Why do people not understand this benefits everyone? From the miner to the salvager to the producer and then last off the industrialists
Newbie benefit by actually making more money and also having a more local trade hub (more trade will go to lesser trade hubs if jita keeps getting attacked) and also experience the excitement of eve.
I cant really see newbies getting blown up in hulks to be honedt, can't see many 2 week olds using hulks and strip miners so that's a poor argument.
The tech cartel is worse than the jita and hulkageddon events and hopefully soon ccp will sort out this major bottleneck or some other null sec alliance will have some balls to break it.
Interesting. Mittens generally has good ideas. I certianly don't mind fighting his duders in highsec. But I'm left wondering. Why hasn't tech been nerfed yet? Its been imbalanced for years now. Why is the north a gold mine while the south is so inferior?
-A butthurt Southerner.
Because there should be a reason to take and hold an area of nullsec? If all of null is equal value, there's no reason for conflict aside from having more of it. The value of tech should be pulling tons of heat onto the North. Other alliances just need to bring the fights.
I completely agree with you about the incentive to push into someone else's region. That said, I think the moongoo 'rebalancing' that saw Dyspro/Promethium replaced by Technetium as THE production bottleneck was something CCP didn't think through (shocking, right?). What kinda sucks is instead of having systems in far-flung backwater systems where if you wanted to hold a monopoly you would have to be on standby at all hours ready to deploy to some faraway system (which, unfortunately, isn't such a big deal when supers can cross the galaxy, blap all the dreads and be back home literally hours before even the zippiest interceptor was halfway there. Ugh. Supercapitals are literally the antichrist.) to defend your stuff.
Keeping all the cashcow moons in one segment of the map is kinda counterintuitive on CCPs part. I've personally seen CFC Tech moons in Syndicate seized by relative nobodies and never defended or reclaimed because effort, apparently. Those nobody moons will now be fought over by other nobodies, but there ~will~ be fights generated on a regular basis as they change hands back and forth which is pretty great. Were Tech - or whatever future bottleneck arises should CCP attempt to 'rebalance' again - to be roughly distributed across the galaxy, but still heavily favoring certain regions to allow for both major regional power plays AND slug-outs between locals in remote backwaters (like the aforementioned moons in Syndicate), that would just be nifty neat.
Or something like that, idk v0v
Yes the tech should create an incentive for conflict and change.
And lets face it, it did. There was a huge reshuffle of the map and location of alliances and a lot of conflict originally.
But that is now over. The battles have been won, the power bases re-established and now actually Tech just provides a powerful incentive for inertia and boring game play.
Moon profit goes into the pockets of a tiny few alliance leaders (good on goons for opening up the accounts tbh). Everyone is blued up to the hilt to protect those riches. Far from fighting to gain more, they constructing a universe that maintains the status quo.
The best thing that can happen for the game and people's "fun levels" is for a rebalancing, create something new to fight for or another bottleneck.
Yes on the face of it, those that have worked hard to gain their dominance may initially be annoyed at the change but actually when they start having to re-strategize , fight again, when friendships and alliance bonds have been re-shaped and back stabbed by a new wave of greed to own the "latest" scarce resource, they are going to agree the game got a lot more fun.
Worst thing for the game is maintenance of the current status quo.
If only there was someone who could keep pushing this issue on behalf of the players. Right?
Maybe someone on the CSM with well-placed access to CCP's ears.
Maybe a former CSM Chairman, with a track record of getting shit done, could have a bit of influence.
Too bad we don't have any of those around.
Im just gonna state the obvious here, it takes you months to train for an exhumer in which time you should have learned enough about the game to know what risk it is to take a 300m isk flying brick out into space. You should also know to keep up on whats going on in the game on the meta level or be in a corp where people talk about this stuff.
Personally, I run a newbie mining corp and Ihve made sure that everyone knows whats going on. Not just for their own personal security but also because its events like these that shows what the game is really about. Player generated content.
I tip my hat to the Goons and Mittens, well played sirs.
Mittens has always stated that he supports moon rebalancing. Maybe with otec hes trying to force CCP's hand in this matter.
Hulkaggeddon does have one major positive impact and that it inspires miners to actually higher guards and logi to watch over them. They can no longer park the orca and sent out the 14 accounts, they may actually have to work with some pvpers that have an interest in making some isk(no im not making the argument that all miners are solo people who multibox).
Miners. If you have friends in pvp that can guard you or provide logi, higher them. Get them into your corp. This synergy is what makes EVE great. All though you will be working with PVPers you yourself can still mine.
too bad that all the gankers need to be profitable is one hulk kill and it doesn't matter how many pvper's are guarding you they can alpha the paper thin barges really easily. This is the same problem in null sec, there is absolutely no way to run a mining op in 0.0 because it only takes a couple of reds to disrupt it, despite a pvp defence fleet.
I beg to differ. I'm a miner, playing since 2003, and have 5 accounts. I live in 0.0 as one of my alliances mining foremen. We regularly hold mining operations without interruption from reds or neutrals. Hulkageddon hasn't stopped me, and all these arguments are just plain ignorance. If you try, there are over 5400 systems of known space, 2499 systems in wormholes, and many aren't even traveled within a given day.
If you leave more that 4 jumps from your trade hub, set up shop, you'll have a better life expectancy. You might even have to be attentive too, like watching local for unknowns. Good luck and come back with a real argument instead of bitching about 'I want but you won't let me.' This is just a game and nobody is stopping you, just making you think.
I think you've got it right; this is all fine and dandy until tech is rebalanced and can't be controlled by a cartel in the same way it is now.
That said, I think it's a brilliant idea. If anything will force CCP to rebalance tech, this would be it.
Mittens and Helicity....sigh so proud of what? your minor incursion to jita and the minor incursion that is hulkageddon will have very little long term affect.
Just like the mittens to ride on the coattails of other factors to claim success ( like he did in csm constantly ). There are a tonne of other factors that were already well in play before this and continue to have a long term affect....but if it makes you goonies feel self important. Go ahead...your game hasnt changed mine in the least.
you shouldn't post anymore
you shouldn't post anymore
Lol - tears at the reality Burn Jita has exposed, this is a big game with a lot of players and actually despite the hype, CFC is pretty irrelevant to the grand scheme of things.
Burn Jita didn't even create a blip in an economy that is so massive it dwarfs your event. All burn Jita achieved was creating some pew pew fun to keep restless goons from getting bored in a world where your leadership has blued up everyone of interest to control Tech. And thank god for the Tech because it paid for the half a trillion ISK or so your lost hulls cost and enabled your leadership to sponsor the event.
The more you protest and complain there was some meaningful impact, the more you just look stupid.
The rest of the game just has to keep playing and enjoying themselves, reminding you how irrelevant your actions are - hitting you in the ego - far more painful than any losses that can be achieved in game.
you should skill yourself
The guy put together a weekend of fun and good times for literally thousands of his 'closest friends'. Even if they lost ten times the ships they did, the CFC further solidified their camaraderie and morale by spending this weekend warping around Jita, laughing and dying together with not a care in the world for isk lost or 1337 killboard efficiency nonsense.
The long-term effect is not so much Jita prices. What he truly achieved here can't really be graphed.
You should post more often. Don't let the CFC drones drown you out with their constant repetition of whatever the glorious leader tells them to say.
Who cares about the long-term effect? It only needs to last long enough to cash in on their investments.
You should go fly your pod into the sun of Jita and kill yourself in the game.
Thanks for tweeting/linking the anthem Mittens. I had a big cheesy grin on my melon all day at work after it hit.
And congrats on an event that, love it or hate it, reminded everyone that Eve is unique.
"Why did we do it?"
Wait what? You guys did something in highsec? I haven't noticed anything. Even this so called "Burn Jita" event seems to have fizzled out right from the start.
Really the only thing that's going to produce any sort of meaningful protection to moongoo manipulation is if it moved away from being an (almost) totally passive activity to something that actually involves humans doing 'stuff'. The bring problem with tech isn't so much that it can be controlled by just a few groups, it's more the fact that once taken, tech moons need very very few ongoing man-hours to produce those massive incomes.
Make moon mining a more active, err, activity again and you have the potential of people not bothering because of :effort: - that should shake things up a little.
brilliant article.
well written and informative.
safe is boring.
wish i understood more about how EVE worked.
I kindly request that you rename "Hulkageddon" to "Hulkamania"
Most impressive Mittens
do you write that dripple with right hand, while servicing your selv with the left, fantasizing about how your goons drink it all up?
Its sad how a lot of devs also seem to be goons, which might explain ccps reluctance to touch your techmoons
the mittani is just a douchebag plain and simple. Plus what is it with that stupid name?????
1
I don't see any long term adverse effects from the ganking of Jita. Short term.. maybe a week.
What I do see is goons emo-nerd-raging because their icon received a slap on the wrist for innapropriate antics. CCP is well within their right as a company, from a marketing standpoint and from a human standpoint to exercise some control over the situation. Within the game is the sandbox, outside of the game you are subject to the laws of state.
You knew that Alex.
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