In January 2004 (when you were just an Associate Designer), Jeff Kaplan (Tigole) stated this:



"The single most important thing to remember when creating a game is that it must be FUN. When someone sits down to play your MMO, they are doing so to be entertained. An MMO should not feel like a job or obligation. It's very important not to fall into that trap of trying to manipulate your community, as if you're trying to run an ant farm. As a designer, it's your responsibility to create a world that's exciting, challenging, and FUN. It's not your job to play god over someone's play experience."



In the 1-59 game, players have fun choices for advancing their character and have a very large variety of quests and missions to keep them entertained and happy. WoW never felt like work and never felt like you were forced into any particular direction. On the other hand, there are only a few options upon reaching the endgame and level 60: 1) Raid, 2) Grind for Reputation, or 3) Grind for PvP Rank. Most people agree that neither of these three are fun.



They say that raiding isn't fun and no one would do it if there were other options. How does this fit in the philosophy stated above? "The single most important thing to remember when creating a game is that it must be FUN. When someone sits down to play your MMO, they are doing so to be entertained. An MMO should not feel like a job or obligation." While that is a wonderful statement, sadly that is exactly the opposite of the present endgame.



The present endgame does not feel like the players are in control. We are forced into content that is vastly different from what we loved in the 1-59 game. To advance, you are force feed content that is not fun. How is grinding not like work? We do feel we are ants in an ant farm, forced to raid or grind. If we cannot or prefer not to participate in the raid content you loved in EQ, we have no fun options.



Mr. Kaplan, you are doing exactly what you said you should not do: "An MMO should not feel like a job or obligation. It's very important not to fall into that trap of trying to manipulate your community, as if you're trying to run an ant farm. As a designer, it's your responsibility to create a world that's exciting, challenging, and FUN. It's not your job to play god over someone's play experience."



I have brought together for another interview, two people who have been highly active on the Blizzard forum boards, Oz-> a 60 Night Elf Rogue and Ghostdance-> a 60 Night Elf Hunter. They finally have the chance to put their thoughts out to the WoW fanbase through Tentonhammer and say everything they need to say. I have asked them to tell me, THEIR opinions and any and all thoughts about the Raiding aspects of the game, the Casual vs Raider dilema, and how they themselves fit into the overall picture.





Oz-> a 60 Night Elf Rogue



"What in the hell is so wrong about raiding anyway? I personally think it's fun - and a great challenge, which is what a GAME is - a challenge, or competition. Nothing worth it is in this world is handed out freely - and I'm not talking simply material, I talking worth it for human character. Isn't the whole thought of an MMO about human interaction?? Isn't this why we don't play single player games? - because we want to interact and cooperate with other live humans?



I've recently resigned my position as GM of Kali Swarm on the Thunderlord server - but I really enjoyed starting the guild from scratch and helping run it up to Majordomo in 2 months. Did it feel like a job?? No. Was I aware there is responsibility involved - yes, of course - in any case when dealing with other human beings. And, the last time I checked, if I'm going to play and MMO, I'm going to have to interact with other humans - and furthermore, if I want to create and run a guild, I'm going to have to care about other humans, because these are the people that I'm cooperating with to what - SUCCEED. It was a tough endeavour - none other for the simple fact that all it takes is a press of a button for a someone to quit your guild. That's the main challenge - mastering the human condition and experience. Otherwise, I like the fact, and enjoyed the experience of putting a group together from top to bottom - taking this group into this hostile content, and mastering it - because why?? Because the point of any game is to succeed!



It shouldn't be easy to succeed. I think we're all past Candyland and Schutes and Ladders now. Victory shouldn't be handed to us - which is really what casuals are asking for. They want things to be easy and less challenging - to master the game itself, which is in of itself, wrong. This defeats the purpose of the game. To me, this game is just about everything I want it to be. I WANT the end-game content to be a mountain climb!! I want the challenge to span months instead of hours. So, the "casuals" are basically asking for content - easy content - that can be completed in a very short time, of which they are highly rewarded, if not equal to the same rewards as those who bust their knuckles in the MC/BWL grind. These places SHOULD be a long progression - I absolutely LOVE the way it's been set up. You have to create an army, and lead that army into battle with each member of that group knowing their role - and executing to succeed. Success from this is a great thing - it's the most rewarding feeling I've gotten from any competition that I've been involved in - and just for reference, I was part of my high school soccer team that won it's conference 3 years in a row - and went to the state-semifinals 2 years straight. This may seem like a joke to some, but it's not - these are memorable events in my life - as everyone of you have some as well - I'm sure.



So what - you want it easy right? You want "epic" loot for short time spent, and mediocre challenges? I don't see how you can expect this - because this is really what it's all about right - loot? I would like to point out that - at no time during my guild's progression did I ever give a flip about loot. For me, and you can ask anyone in my guild - it was always about success. I play this game, and I wish to master this game - this is my philosophy in terms of playing games. Loot itself was merely a tool of progression in my view - certainly not the majority of my guild, but it's very useful when driving your guild to success. I'm not saying that this game doesn't have problems - I surely imagine it would, but I truly believe that the designers of this game recognize these problems, want to fix them -and eventually will fix them - is it slow sometimes, yeah it is, but nothing is perfect.



Now, I know the designers of this game love what they do - because each time I log onto this game I can see it. I can see it in the landscape, I can see it in the cities, I can see it in the AI, I can see it in Molten Core, I see it everywhere. What I see is total dedication to the greatest multi-player world ever created. I wouldn't be off by saying this because, in fact, it has the largest membership of any. It is a great game - it is fun, and it's only been out for a year. Personally, I'm unaware about the time it takes to "code" these things - but just from using my common sense I can see that this world is massive - and it must have taken quite some time to get it going - even getting it where it is today for that matter. Now, am I a fanboi - no, I have my share of complaints as well - but not as to the overall game. The game itself is great - it's the greatest game I've played by far, at least the best multi-player game. I guess I'm tired of seeing all of these people yearning and moaning for instant gratification and reward (loot) without doing any work for it - or without having to interact with other humans.



In this game - to gain truly great rewards - you're going to have to work for it, as you should - so get used to this idea. It's kind of the same in real life. Secondly - this is a Massively MULTI-PLAYER Online game - meaning, we play this game because we want to interact with live personalities while enjoying the experience of the game. It should be heavily based on cooperation - THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR. So, if that doesn't suit you - go play Half-Life, or Zelda - which are fine games, and there aren't any more humans to bother you there. You get to play all by yourself, and the objective is obtainable on a solo basis. The day that "casual" people obtain the same level of loot I do for doing something easier, that takes less time - is the day I'll quit this game. At this point, the competition - the game has lost all of it's value as a game. If you're "casual" sure, play by all means - but don't expect the same loot that high end raiders do - it's not going to happen, nor should it. I tend to believe this is what you're arguments are all about - and it is, because there are more "casual" instances than there are "hardcore".



Hardcore

MC

BWL

ZG - maybe



Casual

Scholo

Stratholme - both sides

UBRS

BRD

ZG - maybe

Dire Maul



If it's not more - it's quite even - and not to mention - all get to go to Battlegrounds. Sure, to rank up high, you're going to have to spend time on it - as it should be, and there are problems with this honor system, I'm aware - only because there are always problems with humans themselves. There are some humans who always tend to take it to the extreme - exploit, cheat - anything they can do to get large rewards for nothing, which in my view is the same thing many "casuals" are asking for. But they are still missing that one intangible reward - the thrill of victory - the awesome feeling that comes with organizing a 60 member guild and progressing to domination in Molten Core - each member executing a crucial role. So in this way - I'm always rewarded more, with what actually counts. Sure - Blizzard could be faster, they could be a little more open about what content is coming, but we've always played their games and even though it's difficult to take sometimes - I think we keep playing their games probably because of this fact - that they want it right before it's released, so we can enjoy it when it's released. Sure, there are always going to be issues with ANYTHING, especially with direct manipulation and involvement with human beings. In my view, Blizzard has fixed many of these problems - and they continue to do so.



Not every one person is going to be totally happy with everything. Change roles and understand that, they are few listening to complaints from thousands upon thousands of people. We are thousands (usually thinking we are one, and that nothing else should be listened to) wanting these few to concentrate on MY issue - when there are so many others. Why don't you all give them a break. Complaints and opinions are necessary surely, but I've seen so many low blows lately it's kind of sickening. Some have reached too far and have tried to completely degrade these developers and all the hard work they have done. Your degradation and inflammation is often unfounded - and is based on your own selfish reasoning. So, when offering your complaints - why don't you be a little more constructive and a little less insulting.



I love this game - it's my main interest outside of family and work. I recognize it's not perfect and hope that Blizzard responds to certain issues - but these issues do not override the game itself. Anything has issues - and Wow is not an exception, especially due to it's great massiveness. But make no mistake about it, World of Warcraft is greatness in the gaming world - it is truly a great game. You know it and I know it. Why else do you or I sit here night in and night out?"





Ghostdance-> a 60 Night Elf Hunter





"The almighty casual player and harbringer of epic 5 man instances is trying to tell everyone that you have finished every quest, every dungeon, grinded every reputation to exalted, aquired your epic mount and so and so on and so now there is NOTHING in the game left to do rather then stand around in Iron Forge with envious eyes over all those people with epic items? See, this is where I can't jump on the band wagon. You are basically ripping into someone because they are making a valid point about loot interest? If this is so true, and you are such a casual player...then why haven't you gone and done all the quests in the entire world? I know exactly why. Because there is not a reward worthy of the time spent. Sure you could go back and do all those quests you missed while you were leveling...but what is the point really?No Reward = No Incentive



So...you have 40 Man Raids, which are quite difficult, take fairly well organized players and regardless of your beliefs, fairly skilled players, as well as people with even a small piece of social skills to pull off in order to "farm" all those epics. Not to mention the hundreds of gold it requires for an insane amount of repairs to your gear, supplying potions and other consumables, patience, and a little luck. It takes dedication, and most of all it takes a desire for the rewards involved. It doesn't require any special playstyle. Over half the people I raid with are avid PVPers and many are even casual gamers. They simply have the capacity to schedule their time accordingly. Now, for those people who literally can't raid because of their work schedules or something similar, I really do feel for you and I hope a method is worked out for you guys. I'm sure if given the chance you would gladly raid.



As far as all the people who simply refuse and stick their noses up in the air and feel they are "too good" to attempt 40 man raids, I feel no pain for you. The reason why people would ditch 40 man raids to chase after those 5 man instances isn't because the fun factor might be any different...it's because it's easier to get 4 others, and you can do it much faster without near as much effort into organization. I get a HUGE kick out of people that come and scream stuff like "But your Blizzard! You can do whatever you want to make the end game different!" They did. You can cry and moan and whine all you want, but they did. With the way some of you people whine and complain you should just be thankful a MMORPG was designed that would LET you get to the end game. All MMORPGS since the dawn of their creation...even back into the MUD days...have ALWAYS been contintually built on the go. In that process, new content is added in streaks. Sometimes those streaks will favor your so called "playstyle" while other times they won't. It takes quite a bit of time to model, code, debug and test content so that when it's released you same people aren't back on forums crying your hearts out.



For a bunch of casual players...you guys sure do take this to an extreme I don't even think many hardcore players would even try to touch. Your solutions? You can dish out all kinds of washed out ideas and narrow minded views all you want...some of them are even fairly decent, although those are rare...regardless, you are such selfish, rude people. I can't believe you can claim to be casual players and have nothing to do in this game! I don't know even one player who has finished every quest in the game. The truth of the matter is it all boils down to epics.



You don't want to raid, or put forth the effort there because you don't feel you should have to. That your playstyle is soooo much better and not worthy of raiding. Get over yourselves. Even if Blizzard decided they wanted to redo their entire end game to base it around solo content, it would take months of work and probably wouldn't be available until much later on down the road. Priorities are extremely important in any business, and pardon me for saying it sucks your not one of the top ones right now. But go ahead and keep crying, you obviously know so much more then the company who creates, manages, and maintains the most massive MMORPG ever to exist on planet earth. You and your exclusive group of four friends obviously has spoken to and banded together with hundreds of thousands of players across every server (while at the same time incapable of gathering together 40 people for a raid) so you must know everything. You have access to all the data, all the information...Blizzard's employees and developers should just bow down to you and admire your e-peen."





Thank you so much for both of your very heated viewpoints on this touchy subject, I know not many would stand and speak up for some of the ideas both of you put forth, but this is an excellent way to give people out there the chance to stop and re-think their endgame lives. If you have any question or concerns at all, we would love to hear from you!