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ION Games Conference 2008 in Seattle, WA

38 Studios: Exclusive Interview with Steve Danuser and Jason Roberts

Posted May 20th, 2008 by Cody Bye

Questions by Cody “Micajah” Bye and Tony “RadarX” Jones

Answers by Steve Danuser and Jason Roberts (38 Studios)

Over the past year, Ten Ton Hammer has been actively pursuing the story behind 38 Studios, the up and coming MMOG development studio that is working on a yet unnamed fantasy massively multiplayer online game. Up until recently, this has meant discussing things with the executive members of the studio – Brett Close, Curt Schilling, R.A. Salvatore, and Mary Kirchoff to name a few. However, recently the gates were opened and the development team was able to stretch its legs around a few select members of the media. As always, Ten Ton Hammer was the first crew on the scene, and we had an excellent discussion with Steve Danuser and Jason Roberts at this year’s ION Games Conference. We hope you enjoy the first part of the discussion, and make sure you check back in with Ten Ton Hammer for the conclusion!


Ten Ton Hammer: When you’re making a game after the phenomenon that was World of Warcraft, what kind of features do you look for when building this game? Do you do things differently? The same?

Jason Roberts: *laughs* That’s a little bit difficult to talk about at the moment, other than how we approach our product. We’re really focused on producing a quality experience and we’re not shy about looking at things that have worked in a wide variety of games, not just MMOs. Then we pick and choose the best aspects out of each of those and try to integrate them into a single whole and see how that plays out.

Steve Danuser: Some people might say “Oh you’re just trying to make a WoW clone or an EQ clone” and the thing of it is, all games of this type have faced certain problems and challenges where they needed to figure out a solution for it. In some cases, games have done it right before. We always examine those stories and see if it’s really the best thing to suit our needs. If it is, then there’s no shame in doing it that way. If it’s proven that it works and it works with our vision for our game, then there’s no shame in it. But it’s the reexamination of these things and trying to find out if the previous games have used techniques that we should use.

That said, we’re tweaking and evolving things as we go along, and in some instances we’re creating whole new solutions or features that are completely different from what people have seen in the past. Yet if someone’s done it right before, it’s good to build off that base.

Jason: Design philosophies across design teams in MMOs are often the same. In a lot of cases, it’s all about making it accessible, fun, and that sort of thing. But having a philosophy and executing upon that philosophy are two different things. So we’re really focused on how we’re getting from point A to point B and iterating on that process.

Ten Ton Hammer: When you’re iterating this early on in the experience, do you go through everything with a fairly fine toothed comb and make sure you’re only including the quality experiences into your game?

Jason: We’re pretty meticulous about things. We start off with a core and we build off of that core. We’ll add something on to the core, and we’ll take a step back and see how that affected the entire system and how everything works in concert with each other. If it doesn’t work, you iterate and refine it and do that process all over again. You do that again and again and again until you get it absolutely perfect. You continue to grow the whole thing from there.

Ten Ton Hammer: Are there times where you just look at something that didn’t work at all and decide to chuck it out and not even worry about iterating on it?

Jason: Yup. And that’s one of the most difficult decisions to make.

Ten Ton Hammer: Because you’re throwing out someone’s idea, right?

Jason: Or it could be something that you really like as a standalone idea, but it doesn’t necessarily work in the context of what we’re trying to do. We try to have very very clear goals on what we’re trying to achieve, and if it doesn’t fit those goals, it probably doesn’t belong in the game.

Steve: One of the things I like doing on DVDs is watching the deleted scenes and the director’s commentary because they’ll talk about why a scene was cut, what it’s original intention was, and why it got cut. Oftentimes a director will talk about how he loved a particular scene and how he thought it was great, but after putting it all together it just didn’t fit. You end up cutting away some of your finest flowers, but those flowers just aren’t cohesive with the experience that you’re trying to create.

You have to be really objective about things like that and realize that there will be things you love and become attached to, especially early on. Now that we’re getting to the prototype phase where we actually build stuff, you have to prove that it’s fun, works, and is cohesive with the whole of the product.

Jason: And you have to look at a lot of things as a return on investment. If you have to invest this much time in order to make something, it better work out because some things just take way too much time to develop for the game.

Ten Ton Hammer: Are you starting to do focus group testing? Since you were talking about Hollywood, I wonder if you were doing something similar?

Steve: Our marketing VP is doing some concept testing where she’s basically taking some of the concepts into folks and testing that out on some focus people just to get their reactions. It isn’t so much to determine whether we should keep something or cut something, but just to inform us a bit on the things players are really responding to so we can choose to focus on that or not.

We’re not at the point where we can give players a chunk of the game to play through, but eventually we will do that kind of focus testing and things like that because it does give you some valuable insights into things players gravitate towards.

Ten Ton Hammer: From more of a community development standpoint, there really isn’t much information to work with on the product 38 Studios is building just yet. How do you work on developing a community that’s out in limbo? There are people that are excited about the game and want to talk about it….

Steve: My experience is that doing too much too early can be just as detrimental as not doing enough when the time is right. Based on watching how other games have handled that sort of scenario, we’ve decided to be very low key and talk about the studio rather than what the game is and the features in it. I’m really more in the belief that we should give players something that they can sink their teeth into and react to that rather than reacting to the things we say we’re going to do.

From day one, I got emails talking about doing a fan site for our upcoming game, and I was really forthright with those people and said, “Look, I think it’s great that you’re enthused about what we’re doing, but it’s just too early to talk about this sort of thing. We’ll by no means stop you if you want to put up a message board.” I was just very open with those individuals and let them know that we can’t talk about the game. We’ll remember that they were dedicated, but we’re just not going to be able to give you the insider information you want.

A project like this is all about looking at the long term strategies and making sure that when you release information, it gets the most bang for the buck. As much as you’d like to embrace the fan site people right from the get go, you have to measure it against the fact that will giving this particular person insider information going to be ultimately as valuable as giving one to Ten Ton Hammer or to a magazine?

Ten Ton Hammer: While we’re on community, what kind of philosophy are you planning on using? There are obviously extremes like SOE which is very hands on, and then there are others like NCsoft and EA Mythic that are bit mores hands-off. How are you planning on implementing your community?

Steve: I think there’s tremendous value in a community being able to look at somebody – the community manager – and knowing what their name is, what they stand for, and can rely on them for consistency. When I started at SOE, I already had my own particular online identity because I’d run a website before that. It was one of the reasons SOE hired me was because I was a known quantity.

We’ll get a dedicated community manager who’s in that sort of role and will be someone I work with that I will work to establish as that voice. You don’t want to tell developers not to interact with community, but you do want that focused voice – someone who can feel the pulse of the community. At any time know what’s going on.

If you’re really in tune with forums and fansites, you get this vibe and can tell when things are going well or being edgy. It’s like the ship captain who can walk on a vessel’s deck and tell whether the engine is off. The screen might say that the engines are fine, but he knows that they’re off. It’s the type of person that can just feel it, because a community is a living and breathing thing that evolves and grows. Getting that person who’s really in tune with that is key to building that sort of long term relationship.
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Copernicus Details

    Windows
  • Developer: 38 Studios
  • Genre: Fantasy
  • Status: Pre-Production
  • Official Website
  • Monthly Fee: TBA
  • Release Date: TBA
  • ESRB Rating: Not Rated

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