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[...] Vanguard: First Impressions [...]

The low lvl dungeons I, personnally, have done are the Rindol Storehouse (lvl 6-8) for the halfling and human Thestrans races amd the Riftseekers (lvl 8-10) and the Gnomish Mine and Library (lvl 6 -8). My spouse, especially, and others of my family and friends have done others. (We scattered doing the Open Beta and just tried lots of races and classes.)

I am not sure what you expect a dungeon to be, but the lvl 6-8 dungeons are great "training" dungeons to me with quality gear dropped off named mobs that are upgrades even at lvl 10 -12. To me, anything that primarily an "indoor" experience, that is cut off from the rest of the world, and is filled almost entirely with hostile mobs that can agro you in groups is a dungeon, whether it be a set of tunnels, caves, a house, canyons, a ruined city, a sewer, etc regardless of how long or short a time it takes. There are low lvl (6-8) areas like this for all the newbies to explore.

Sigil stated they were expanding the concept of just what a dungeon was and entailed (see Vanguard FAQs and interviews with Brad McQuaid). They also stated they were breaking the dungeons up so they could be done in 2-3 hour sessions for the most part, with either safe camping spots inside or various sections that could be done separately. The starting dungeons (the 6-8 lvl ones) meet that promise by being able to be done in 2-3 hours, fulfilling Sigil's vision.

[...] Vanguard: First Impressions [...]

Listen, for all those people that want to hate. MMOs to date have be released "unfinished". EQ 1 was damn near unplayable for a month or so. WoW was completely unplayable for 3 days after release (I played Vanguard the first day and on Hughesnet, which is a feet in itself). WoW to this day has uninspired graphics and steals most quest form famous quotes (movies or games) and is so simple that a 3 year old child can get to 70. Almost every other week there is a 240 meg patch with a patching systems that swears you are behind a firewall even if you are not (or even when you configured port forwarding), but even after all the bugs, not to mention every patch meant new UI loads, I still played a little. I played EQ for 5 years and really hope people give this new game its due and play it for more than five minutes before they write their reviews. GameSpy writes a review for WoW BC in a day while 3 weeks after release they blame SoH for being unpolished, while all the time singing praises to WoW. I want to read a SoH review that is fair and doesn't compare the game to a mindless uninspired kiddy romp that is WoW. Please base you game merits good or bad on the game you played not another game. WoW is popular because it is easy and most people's PCs can handle the requirements. Your review on this site was fair and clearly stated it was not intended to be the final say. All I have to say is 8 million monthly subscription could not possible buy reviews, Nah people are honest that would never happen.

I'm going to guess that what you consider a dungeon isn't what I consider a dungeon. If you visit the spawn map here:

http://vanguard.tentonhammer.com/modules.php?full=1&set_albumName=album3...

you will see that there are no Thestra dungeons below level 10, at least not by my definition or that of the gentleman who made the maps.
Arcanium perhaps could be considered a dungeon, but if you walk in there solo at 10, clear the place out and walk out it isn't an area that I personally would list in the dungeon category.

The spider cave is levels 11-14.

I didn't get to try out every single race, but I did play plenty of them to level 10. My first impression was one based a lot of gameplay. The Gnomes have a "library" that I suppose could be considered a dungeon, but it's a solo area as far as I could tell. I never needed any assistance while roaming in there.

What dungeons did you frequent pre-10? For me, they were not an integral part of the game as I never found one that seemed like a dungeon. I expect that will change with an ever increasing frequency as I level to 50.

I don't understand how you can say dungeons are not an integral part of the 1st 10 lvls. Every race my friends, family or I have played have had a dungeon you can go into by lvl 6 at the latest. The named mobs in the dungeons drop awesome loot, also. One of big things I love about Vanguard is the fact you can actually get level-appropriate gear at the appropriate level, instead of 5 levels later like in EQ and WOW. True, you might have to explore a little to find all the named mobs, instead of just running in, finishing the quest, and gating out, but Brad and the other developers have said that exploring and moving thru areas and dungeons was what the game was designed for.

[...] Loading… isn’t sponsored by Mutual or Omaha, nor am I nearly as eloquent as Marlin Perkins was, but we did spot a rare and elusive game developer posting a comment to the Vanguard First Impressions article. Brad McQuaid was kind enough to stop by and give us his take on my first impressions of Vanguard. [...]

Muldamai, you are correct, I didn't discuss the dungeons. Once I have been through enough of them to give an educated opinion I will update my "Impressions".

They are an important aspect of Vanguard that didn't fit into a First Impressions article because they aren't an integral part of the first 10 levels. As I level up my characters in the various areas I will give my updated impressions on things like dungeons and eventually the ships, cities, etc. It is an exciting time!

I played vanguard since beta 5 and am floored by what I'ven seen. Dungeons that arent the same as the others in how some of the Eq2 Kingdom of Sky instances had the "copy n paste" feel to them.

The temple under the sunken ship?? The Riftseeker Torrent dungeon, the Rindol Storehouse dungeon. They're all different. A lot of attention paid to detail--columns handrails on the stairs, layout of the place, variety of mobs. I found myself walking over to check the decor out very often. Especially going down a stairwell in Riftseeker's Torrent to see this huge picture of a "gorgon?" above an entranceway.

Some of the quests are awesome! Especially the one given by a npc at the fort past the 2nd wall north east of Hathor Zhi. You have to collect 2-3 war wands(?) and bring them back, get a conoction which will activate a beacon which in turn calls 3 dragons from hathor Zhi. YOU CAN SEE THEM flying in from the horizon. It's like watching a movie while waiting for them to work their way down the valley to where the enemy army is standing with their war machines outside the 2nd wall. Watched th dragons distract the army by flaming them. I was then able to go around and light the war machines on fire in order to update the quest.

Another one was started by a npc at the docks on the other side of the river SE of the Beacon of AF (something) in Lomshir SE of Darkhorse. Consisted of killing a lizardman to fill a vial with blood, killed a wyvern to get a bone which i used the mortar/pestle to ground into a conoction which i then used at where I killed the wyvern. Watched in rapt attention as a 3-4 yellow dotted Ancient Protector and 2 flunkies marched up to the Wyvern and battled it. Stood behind the Ancient Protector, whacking away (was a lv 11 DK) hoping to God he wouldnt turn around and squash me.

The scripted encounters such as this bodes well for the Advanced Encounter Generator (?) which will be implemented in the future has me excited!

Not to mention Brad commenting on sea warfare and mounted warfare! Guild vs Guild Battles with guild ships blowing the other ship with cannons, griffons taking a running start and taking off from those ships and then doing battle in the skies.

EPIC!!

(DROOLS MOST PROFUSELY)

KEEP UP THE GOOD JOB! I know there are bugs, quirks but not a deal breaker and I wait with bated breath for new developments!

This is a well articulated piece of the first few weeks. It is a shame to lose subscribers not because of game play, but technical issues will drive some away early. This has the makings of deep game, however you decide to play. I played Everquest for six years before hanging it up, and I can see this occupying my time the same way. EQ had some very paculiar quirks, others would call them bugs, and it added a certain flavor for me. Once a lot of technical details get hashed out, I still see quirkiness existing, being part of this world. I don't expect this to have 8 million subscribers, but hopefully the 500,000 the 1st year and climbing to support this beastie so I can explore every bit.

One thing you didnt include is dungeons (or undeground). the designers of these area have floored me in design and detail. Every one I have been to has a very natural feel (just like above ground), with many twists and turns to keep a group on its toes.

ps Corpse runs: I missed them. A penalty for death and having to run and get your body adds to the interest level (for me). It is not too difficult, they have put numerous safe spots in so you arent running too far, and there is the option to summon up your body and take an xp hit. Kudos for leaving this in a game.

Glad to see Brad posted. As we can all see, this game is going the way we all had hoped. Sea battles, flying mounts that dont cost 6000 gold like in wow and require lvl 70. Wooot.. I cant wait. WoW had 8 million people, VG will have even more. To all the Nah sayers and the should have waited. Be patient , this is is just the beginning. SET YOURSELFS FREE!!!

Thank you Amith for your comment on the quests. I don't believe that the quest line is a problem in most areas. In some, or at least two it is.

Special thanks to Brad for taking time to comment on the "First Impressions". The article is by no means a review of the game, there simply aren't enough hours in the day to have completed an educated review at this point. It was written 100% from a post-release point of view. I purposely did not play much of the beta so my view would not be tainted.

I agree that the game has incredible potential. Even taking out the incredible additions that Brad mentioned above it is evident that the game itself, at its core, has an almost limitless potential. Another interesting aspect is that there is a hook. Even with the current bugs and glitches, the game latches on and won't let go. That is the sign of a well designed game.

My main concern is that not enough people will get past their own first impressions to see the potential come to fruition.

Thanks again for any all comments, whether they be from the man behind the game or the players, they are all valuable.

Thanks for the review. I think it was mostly fair and objective. I do know that we made a lot of fixes and added a lot of polish during that last phase of beta and only humbly ask that previews and reviews are based on the released game and not early or mid beta. That said, yes, I wish we had more time for polish, but as I have said previously, financial realities are what they are. For me, personally and professinally, releasing Vanguard is so much more a beginning than an end. What we will do to the game, in addition to better polish, performance, etc., is what makes me excited. The game has SO much potential and pre-planning to it. We're going to take player housing and evolve it into player cities. We're going to take sailing a ship into full ship to ship combat with cannons and such. We're gong to take mounted travel and evolve it into mounted combat, etc. We have so many plans. To those who are enjoying the game, I thank you. To those who are waiting for even more, I promise you, it will come, both in terms of new features, mechanics, better polish, UI, etc.

Regardless, I thank you all.

*bow*

-Brad

[...] Vanguard: First Impressions [...]

My only real problem with this review was the comment about the quests. As someone above also said, I have never had to go out to a field and mindlessly hack MObs to grind XP. As a matter of fact, at level 10 I had many excess quests in my quest log that would never be finished. One does have to go out and look around for the next outpost to get quests, but to many who have been waiting for this game, that is a good thing.

I ask you, what is more "mindless"? Is it a quest system that has you do a little exploring to seek out the next batch of quests, with the next batch coming from any of the adjacent outposts (Adjacent in VG is admittedly very far but this is another one of those good things to many)? Or, is it getting your first quest from the NPC standing right in front of you and then embarking on a chain of quests that tell you exactly what to do and then tell you exactly where to go to get the next quest that will tell you exactly what to do... and so on?

There are many faults to VG, the vast majority being due to it's unfinished state, but mindlessness really cannot be considered one off them.

[...] Whew! It’s been a long couple of weeks since last we’ve spoken. In that time, the official Vanguard forums closed, the Vanguard beta ended, and the game launched. (Oh, and I moved into a new house and promptly came down with the world’s worst case of the stomach flu…but that’s beside the point.) Our own John “Boomjack” Hoskin recently gave his first impressions of Vanguard in his daily column, Loading…. I agree with much of what he wrote, particularly this tidbit: “From first impressions it appears that if EverQuest was your thing, then Vanguard will likely become the new love of your life, if and only if they can get the bugs out in the next couple of weeks. The similarities are too frequent to mention, which isn’t surprising given the fact that Brad McQuaid is at the helm. If on the other hand, you enjoy World of Warcraft because of its polish and structure you might want to pass on Vanguard until it matures.” [...]

Nice Review. But rember people this game has only been out for just over a week. It will be the new king of kings of MMROPG's .. Yes there are bugs. and yes they need to finish up some things. Hands down the best on the market year to date. Great community of players. Awesome grapics, if you cant see them then upgrade your 2002 grapics card and memory. Lets move forward and not backward. Upgrade, hell vista just came out, noone is bitching at Bill for moving forawrd with his requirments. For the love of God how long can you leave a game in Beta. People gotta eat. Those of us who work through the bugs and support this game will be happier in the long run. Rember when WoW or EQ launched? There were tons of bugs to be corrected. You couldn't even play WoW for 3 days after it went live. Look at the low system requirments it had. In short, dont complain in 2-3 months when those of us who have braved the storm have higher level toons with uber equipment. Cudo's to Brad and Sigil for creating the BEST MMROPG EVER!!!

Vanguard is extremely reminiscent of DAOC to me. Which is fantastic. This is what EQ2 should have been.

The islands give you that distinct "I'm in Midgard/Albion" feel.

The crafting system is great, it's the first time in any MMOG apart from UO where I've actually enjoyed crafting.

If you play on the PVP servers, this game feels raw, and unadulterated. Like someone took the best of UO, and the best of DAOC, and mixed it together, with updated (EQ2) graphics.

It far and away feels unfinished. Some of low level areas are almost completely devoid of quests, which is rather annoying, whilst some (highelves) are so full of quests you'll be the same level as your main character in a matter of hours.

[...] Vanguard: First Impressions [...]

[...] Vanguard: First Impressions [...]

[...] « To VG Or Not To VG? [...]

In reference to what I first said... yes, I tried copying and highlighting statements that ended up not copying correctly.

But, to sum up what I was getting to, I wonder how much time the reviewer spent playing the game *after* release. It seems that, unfortunately, for Sigil and VG that a lot of changes to improve playing and performance went through after release and the reviews missed this.....

I personally had no problems having to "grind" experience in newbie areas, unless you count killing mobs for quests grinding, then I have to agree with you.

Most of the "bad things" listed were bugs that, in my experience, and reading on a few message boards weren't horribly common - but I'm not saying they were uncommon either.

The question about prime time is in relation to the statement about unstable chat/social servers. Only saw that happening before official release.... as far as I can remember. :) But I don't play normal prime time either.

Oh yea, and to say the game has average sounds effects does not give it justice. That should clear up everything I tried to say in my messed up first reply. :)

Excellent review Boom. Open Beta let me know that I'm not gonna look towards Vanguard til I have a top-of-the-line machine and Sigil optimizes more code.

Man that was a good review! I have ordered the game and you really made me doubt my decision, guess I'll have to wait a few months to subscribe to the game..

Greeting from Norway :)

>> Never had this problem.

>> Have to disagree with you here. Sound is better overall.

>> Is this happening in prime times? I don't remember seeing this after official retail release.

Why does "the bad" section include a lot of specific bugs that aren't as common you are imply?

"The good" list is pretty good. :D

Ofia,

I spent extensive time post-beta playing the game. I played very little during beta.

Any criticisms that I made were made with error on the side of caution, giving the game the benefit of the doubt. :)

Hey Ofia,

Never had which problem?

Is what happening in prime time? I believe your cut and paste got cut, but not pasted. :)

Everything in the "Bad" occurs frequently. I left out the uncommon, rare and legendary bugs, though I would have coloured them for effect had I added them in. ;)

Thanks for the comment.

You're right "average sound effects" does not do it justice. Boring, muted, bland, downright bad might be better (especially the voices). This is not to be confused with the music which is great. I have to have most sound levels at 50% except for combat/spells at 100% and they still lack any kind of excitement or punch. My favorite MMO for battle sounds is Lineage2... when you hit something with a sword in that game you can feel the pain. It also helps make the world feel more solid. I don't feel like I'm hitting armor with a heavy sword or even doing anything with my spells except maybe making 'woosh' sounds with my mouth as I cast ;)

Overall, good review! I really like Diplomacy and hope they continue to evolve it into a deep card game.

My only comment would be in your opening. I have read comments from Sigil that in fact they were going for an evolutionary game not a revolutionary one. But I can't find a quote right now :)

The Vanguard review is worth reading, no loss in lifetime...so to speak :)

I liked the bad/good comparsion...most things are covered.

V/Fanboi-ism or bashing was not even sneaking between the lines.